GetDocued

By robertk (taken from the old forum):

I don't know what to make of this. Of course, the numbers have declined, and hardly anybody would deny that today the majority of people is way better off than say, a hundred years ago.

However, three questions might be worth asking:

1. How does the fact add to the equation that humanity (that is, a small fraction of powerful individuals) is now - for the first time in history - in a position to virtually wipe itself out entirely? Who says this isn't "frozen violence", violence on hold, to be unleashed one day on Mr Pinker's (not Pinkler's, mind you) fine statistics?

2. Plus, speaking of technology, does or does not a kind of responsibility arise from mankind's soaring technical, medical - scientific - progress? I mean, our situation in history today is unique in that we never before had the actual possibility to end violence, war, or suffering. At least, our chances have never been better. So are we, as a civilization, really paying sufficient attention to a peaceful use of technology as opposed to the various ways we let military entities monopolize the blessings of science?

3. And finally: Where does it all lead? Sure, one could argue that "we have been doing something right", but what is the benefit of this knowledge?
And hell, who says we did something right anyway?

1. How does the fact add to the equation that humanity (that is, a small fraction of powerful individuals) is now - for the first time in history - in a position to virtually wipe itself out entirely? Who says this isn't "frozen violence", violence on hold, to be unleashed one day on Mr Pinker's (not Pinkler's, mind you) fine statistics?

- interesting question... i dont have a answer for that, right away.

2. Plus, speaking of technology, does or does not a kind of responsibility arise from mankind's soaring technical, medical - scientific - progress? I mean, our situation in history today is unique in that we never before had the actual possibility to end violence, war, or suffering. At least, our chances have never been better. So are we, as a civilization, really paying sufficient attention to a peaceful use of technology as opposed to the various ways we let military entities monopolize the blessings of science?

- To sum up yout point, what u are saying is that: just the west enjoys the the outcome of new techniques, science and progress. I think, this is a wrong assumption. In fact all over the world the people enjoying huge progress. There is virtually no country which doesnt enjoy the blessings of progress ;)
(I dont know if you have seen: debuking third world mythes already?)

And in the end we as a nation put very much money as aid to African countries, but without much success. As far as I know, just make huge money presents helps nobody. In fact one of the best ways to help poor countries are microcredits.
After all if you compare the the awarness of the European people these days with the awarness 40 years ago I guess we both know, there was a huge increase. An unbelievable bust of attention. Look at all the NGOs and caring people. So I guess with all the people round about the globe who are willing to make a difference we have better chances nowadays to change (... screw u Obama :D ) the world.

But as I discovered, it s really difficult to go to another country and try to change things there, because you are most of the time not welcomed. See, if we would go to northkorea and free the people I guess more than 60% of the north korean poeple would be glad to fight and kill for Kim Jong Il.

3. And finally: Where does it all lead? Sure, one could argue that "we have been doing something right", but what is the benefit of this knowledge?
And hell, who says we did something right anyway?

- The benefits are simple to count:
1. better healthcare
2. raise in litteracy rate
3. less child mortality
4. higher lifestandard
5. better intercultural understanding
6. less violence
7. higher life expectency
8. more freedom to choose ur one way of living
9. freedom of speech
10. a law which u can account on
11. gender equality
12. free education
13. less wars
14. less brutality in families

But after all, I just want to say maybe we should have a little more respect for what the politicans and our western people have managed in the last 50 years. Because after all it gets better every decade.
And if we acknowledge, that there was a positive change maybe we have more power to join in and be part of this change instead of complainig all day long (what you certainly dont do!).

And finally, its hard to change things outside ur country or the EU, because of our small knowledge of other cultures - which is even true if u r an expert. What brought me to the conclusion - lets start in Germany. Because Germany can help best, if it accomplishes raising its own education and livingstandards. Because than governments around the world then say (again?!), "wow, how the fuck do they do that - please help us to do the same!" Than we are welcomend and can do an effective help.

But if there is a genoicide we should go in and fuck there buts with our huge tanks after all!

Thx, and sorry for any unconcrete sentences and thoughts.

By robertk (taken from the old forum):

diderot 2.0 wrote:
To sum up yout point, what u are saying is that: just the west enjoys the the outcome of new techniques, science and progress. I think, this is a wrong assumption. In fact all over the world the people enjoying huge progress. There is virtually no country which doesnt enjoy the blessings of progress

depends on what you mean by "enjoy the blessings of progress". sure enough, most countries in the world are more technologically advanced now than a couple of decades ago, but if there's one thing to be learned from "debunking third world myths", it is that the diversity is huge. meaning, the gap between relatively developed countries and those hardly past the middle ages is as wide as probably never before. this is especially obvious in africa, where even neighboring countries might be seperated by half a century or more.

Quote:
And in the end we as a nation put very much money as aid to African countries, but without much success. As far as I know, just make huge money presents helps nobody. In fact one of the best ways to help poor countries are microcredits.

agreed. another way would be to relieve them of the debts they have been dragging after them since the ages of colonialism.

Quote:
After all if you compare the the awarness of the European people these days with the awarness 40 years ago I guess we both know, there was a huge increase. An unbelievable bust of attention. Look at all the NGOs and caring people. So I guess with all the people round about the globe who are willing to make a difference we have better chances nowadays to change (... screw u Obama ) the world.

there is more awareness, okay. but there is more awareness of everything nowadays. the media are huge, the internet is a reality, people get informed. that is a good thing in itself, doesn't mean anybody's actually getting involved though. putting your name and e-mail on a petition doesn't change a thing.
of course, the work of many NGOs cannot be evaluated high enough. i get the impression though that there are quite a few mechanisms at work that render their efforts rather futile.

Quote:
But as I discovered, it s really difficult to go to another country and try to change things there, because you are most of the time not welcomed. See, if we would go to northkorea and free the people I guess more than 60% of the north korean poeple would be glad to fight and kill for Kim Jong Il.

what kind of a statement is that? i'm sure you didn't mean it the way i read it, so please do enlarge!

Quote:
The benefits are simple to count: [...]

okay, misunderstanding: i didn't doubt the impact or benefit of the actual improvements you mention, but that of any self-praising whatsoever at this point. condemning totalitarian regimes is fair enough, while at the same time doing business as usual might be considered hypocritical by some. and again, to make this clear: i don't deny that a vast progress has been made, and that it is at least partially attributable to certain engagement on the part of our politicians. but is that really enough, taking into account the financial and technological possibilities we have?

Quote:
Because Germany can help best, if it accomplishes raising its own education and livingstandards. Because than governments around the world then say (again?!), "wow, how the fuck do they do that - please help us to do the same!" Than we are welcomend and can do an effective help.

but still, in germany the circumstances are close to ideal in comparison to many other places. there's a lot of groundbreaking to be done first. groundbreaking at groundbreaking, that is.

from the old forum pasknalli:

10% lost Freedom by Firepower

is good as

1% lost Freedom by Firepower

And

10% died children by hunger

are good as

1% died children by hunger

But thats what Steven Pinkler couldnt understand untill he is the Victim.

He talk and talk and say nothing but no.

Bla Bla Bla...

Fact is that Money is the dictator of the democracy
and bring violence and war to our body, mind and soul.

First of all,

welcome Pasknalli, its nice to have another person to discuss the topic.
I guess what Pinker says, is that we are on a good road, and that we should
follow that road - and yes we should try harder, but as it seems, we are not on
the wrong road. Because 1% lost Freedom by Firepower is better than 10%.

But that doesnt mean 1% is good it is still terrible!!!

But maybe we should analyse not only what we do wrong, but also what we do right,
to intensify the the things we as a society did right ---

5 min. ago I saw that Docu about Zimbabwe, and for problems like that we still dont have an answer...
what would u say, what should we do? ...

btw: steven pinker was on the colbert report this week, you can watch the episode here.

they talk about pinker posting his genome on the internet and related issues.